The following is the complete edited transcript of my interview of Anne Sophie Lorange, Oct. 2022
Gina Dominique (GD): …Is there a conscious autobiographical component or motivation to your painting generally, and I know that you know I have some insight into your work. I've heard you speak about it more than once or twice. But now, will you talk about it an autobiographical element in specific works. And if we see it in your work…is there a particular element or evidence? And generally, an autobiographical element inspire your painting?
Anne Sophie Lorange (ASL): Yeah, I think there are autobiographical elements in my work. Even though I’m working primarily within the abstract painterly tradition, I would say that my um there is…
GD: … Is it related to something from your childhood, say an autobiographical experience? Or is it related to studies … more formal, or academic?...
ASL: Yeah, I think a lot of it is both unconsciously and consciously connected (to me) when I’m painting. And, I'm interested in both.. the visible connections and the invisible connections to myself. It's like I’m searching for pages of my diary that that I haven't found yet, or that are empty.
And I’m interested in these sort of undefinable spaces. The spaces of pausing of in-betweenness, and of how I feel that when I start painting, I experience a sense of an opening in in in this notion of sort of identity, who I am. Freedom of space… interests me, and how I can use painting in the sense that it can (enhance) my own sense of identity…of belonging.
GD: …That was really well articulated. How do we see, or do you think we actually, physically see evidence of that? Can you point to shapes or forms, or colors, or actual mark making... the most obvious picturing of that experience, of either conscious or unconscious, or undefinable, in-between-ness, (or) your experience of space?
ASL: …that's interesting, because to me, concreteness in a sense is being definite or implying different variables to a painting… It works against the way I'm painting in a sense that I need the openness. So, when I paint, I'm really just being totally present, in the moment, and realizing, taking in the moment, and trying to expand on that feeling… and also, of course… connected with memory, with the present, with the past. And (when) I start painting, I can see lines, I can see the forms, and I can see the colors. However, there's no definition (or explanation) for the exact reasoning behind it.
GD: Well, all of those things, are so concrete, and I do see them in your painting. And what was the third thing you said about color?
ASL: … because if I plan it in advance, it becomes more static to me. It doesn't develop in a free sense, and when I see the painting afterwards, I can feel that when the painting is finished. I can sense it in my being, so I… just listen to (my) intuition, and (try) not be too structured.
GD: So, you stay out of your head, or you paint more from an intuitive part of yourself rather than a rational part of yourself.
ASL: … actually afterwards... I can look at the painting, and I can write about it, for instance, and I can go into the different structures… of what I'm seeing and viewing. But when I'm making the painting, it's really important for me to be present, and to be following my intuition.
GD: The analytical, the sort of intellectual, or more head experience is afterwards.
ASL: Yeah, I would say. Often I see, for instance, in many of my paintings, that there's always a struggle between chaos and structure… I wouldn't say actually struggle. That's the wrong word, I would say, there's a relationship.
GD: A tension...
ASL:...exactly right. It's like… left and right...
GD: It brings the left and right halves of our being (together?) Could we talk about it in terms of gender, male, female, in terms of intellectual processing...or in terms of rational versus irrational? Or, could we talk about how you think about chaos and structure... is that an intellectual thing? Or might that be an emotional thing?
ASL: I'm not sure about that.
GD: Anything else you want to add (about the) autobiographical aspect of your painting?
ASL: We can come back to it... it'll probably come up again…
GD: Do you see your painting as continuing or existing within any specific art, historical, like an abstract style or era?...one you might have studied... geometric abstraction, hard edge painting, or...those that's like a whole sort of, you know style of abstraction?
ASL: Oh, yeah...so we talked about structured, and then chaotic or emotional painting...
GD:...in art history, we often refer to abstract expressionism, or the immediately following style of the nineteen fifties, which was a more women dominated style or period sometimes called ‘Abstract Impressionism.’ We could plug into other sort of styles or periods of abstraction… I was just using those for examples. Do you see yourself within an abstract painting tradition? This is not necessarily when you're painting, you already explained that your process is quite intuitive.
During your actual painting… time, or studio time…when you step back, and then the analytical, intellectual processing that typically kicks in, and/or what you can write about it... rationalize about it, do you at any point before you paint, during your painting time, or after you're done... think about a particular painting style or period?
…maybe it's not even a formally studied style... but, you know, maybe an artist that you are reminded of... not just written into Western codified art history... white, male-dominated art history, but... it could be also, within any painting tradition that you're aware of, or (may have) pursued on your own?
ASL: Yeah. Usually, I sort of place myself within contemporary art. I'm a contemporary artist, (and see myself) within contemporary art styles. But of course, we always, I mean it's important to look backwards of course, to place myself in a context...in (an art) historical context… I find it really interesting to look at, especially, for instance, female voices that have that are out there... and to look into the context of how they've been placed within art history. And of course, they've been marginalized through art history.
Often people, primarily European Western men say, ‘oh, your (work) reminds me of the American Abstract Expressionists.’ This is our body of history, and I think it's important that we challenge that and that. Yes, of course we have this part of history, but it's not the entire history...
It's been very inspiring to look at feminine/female artists, or at aboriginal artists, or at marginalized voices…
GD: … did say contemporary... that this is the area that you see yourself within...within this art historical context? It sort of matches what you said about your actual process of painting.
ASL: Yeah, I mean a contemporary voice can be so confined a space, which is important... Feeling a sense of freedom and openness, but you feel that contemporary art is open enough that you have a voice within it…
For instance, just take Frida Kahlo, who everyone knows, but how she challenged the way we think about art... of how we look at gender. How she painted the moustache, and her eyebrows, which were… masculine features, and she also painted things that were taboo to talk about... and she opened up… ‘other’ voices that had not necessarily been heard. That should be respected and placed in the contemporary art scene. (If we) reflect, (we can see she was) important, and paved the way.
GD: So, if I hear you correctly, do I interpret that you have a reverence for painters, especially for female or feminist painters, from the last century… who you are aware of their place in history, and appreciate their efforts? Am I correct in interpreting that as part of what you're saying is it that you feel empowered in some way because so many parts of art history were and still are so male dominated? Does that provide a different kind of motivation… does appreciating someone like Frieda Kahlo, who paved the way...?
ASL: I'm not sure if I understood your question. But I think yeah, I think it's important...
GD: I was just trying to interpret your response to how you see your own work in the context of art history. And I feel like you were quite clear what in what you said… that you see yourself as a contemporary artist, and that there's open space for you to have a voice in the contemporary art world because there were women painters, like Frida Kahlo who paved the way. And now I'm just asking, is this a fair interpretation of what you said about who and what's gone on before you, at least from like the last century...? One is in respect to… abstraction, but also recognition that large parts of that were male, dominated. And so, you react in part against that fact?
ASL: Yeah.
GD: And then this other part of the of the last century, which is more feminist led, or feminist based... and that inspires you... and you recognize or acknowledge that?...
ASL: Yeah, I think it's just it's so important to know art history in this sense. Yeah.
GD: And do you think any of that is, I mean, it could be that you've already said this, but I just want to follow up with this sort of second part of that... Do we see it reflected in your work?... in specific mark making, or, you talked about space and color and mark making in relationship to how you see evidence of your autobiographical elements. Do you think any of those relate...?
ASL: Yeah. I think... it does. And it's interesting how... many people have like people come up to me, and I've heard this several times, that your paintings are so masculine... I've gotten disturbed by it, but also... it's very interesting. How is it that we perceive the masculine and feminine, and… why we do? Why do we have to place a label on to it like that...? It can be dangerous...It can lead to discrimination...
GD: (...I wonder if) you ever asked anyone...?
ASL: …I did ask them.
GD: …What was their response?
ASL: I've had it said to me, 'your marks are very raw, and they have a physicality to them...’ and this is true. I do use a lot of physicality... my own physical power when I'm working. I am very physical when I (paint.)
GD: Yes... I think of someone like Joan Mitchell's painting, or of Helen Frankenthaler's...maybe just based on that response... and your work is much more Joan Mitchell-y... like we're talking about two of the most, you know, recognized, prominent, powerful, abstract painters of the last one hundred years, male or female. Right?
ASL: Yeah. Super influential. But... I didn't ever think of on as more feminine (until) right now. Well do you buy that or no? I don't care about that....I mean, people may. They can think what they want to in that sense. But for me, it's important to question them. And... I mean, they are allowed to have meanings, but I think it's important that we just question them. And also, to be critical of them... due to, as we talked about, the Art Historical Canon. It's important to understand that abstract art is not all about male (painters.)
GD: No, especially if we consider the last decade or so, we finally realize that the first handful of abstract artists were, in fact, women. Swedish women, right? Hilma af Klint and the Five... (referencing) the five women around her… I just read an article this last week... about another few women who were painting, not in Sweden, and not part of the five, but in other parts of Europe. Maybe in Eastern European or Russia... anyway, the point being that the whole genre of abstraction was really initiated, or originated by a dozen or so women. We have (been incorrectly taught,) of course, that Kandinsky and a small group of western white European men originated it... but in fact several years earlier, at least a handful of women did.
ASL: Yeah, it's so important to remember that, and raise questions around that. And (to)... be critical.
GD: ... Now, shifting… our focus a little bit... to formal or informal color theory. In relationship to your painting that is like maybe you studied it, but I didn't very closely until I had to teach it. I didn't have a have a specific undergrad or um MFA color theory course, but it touched on in a design and/or... in various painting classes... the color wheel... but it was all sort of like pieced together. And maybe your color theory was the same. Or maybe you formally studied it. I don't know… I wonder, could you talk about color in your painting?
ASL: What I find really interesting is… say you're interested in accounting… you can read about accounting. But, you have to practice it to understand it. And it's the same with color. I mean, you can read about color, and about color theory, but you wouldn't understand color without being in color, and without painting in color. So, it's two different things in a sense, knowing things about color, and using or understanding color… You have to be in the practice to understand it completely.
GD: … 'being in it' resonates... so deeply, because... unless we are fully color blind and we only see achromatically… which is a condition that some people have, so then they can only read about and intellectualize or conceive of color in a mental way, because they don't live in color.
Or some people are called what are partially colorblind, (and they) don't see blues or greens… and then they can only read about those other colors. But, in a sense they have to conceive of it, or intellectualize about it, or maybe... you know, feel something hot to get a sense of what a warm color is (like.)
… it's so interesting to me that you didn't say ‘I have to see,’ or ‘I have to mix,’ or... ‘I have to orchestrate,’ but you said, more than one time, 'I have to be in color...'
ASL: yeah...
GD: And you're talking… specifically about, 'being in color' because… it is our actual reality... if we are able to see the full spectrum, and if we're fully inhabiting our bodies, right?
ASL: Yeah, we do exist in color. It's just a matter of if we are actually aware of it?...
GD: ... Before I go off on this other more academic tangent, I just want to follow up one more thing on the 'being in color.' … if we connect that back to what you were initially talking about... You don't start off intellectually or from your head, but you experience (and intuit your way through making a painting.) You like to be present in the moment...
ASL: Yeah.
GD: Is that happening for you with color as well? Is that part of the process?
ASL: Yeah, it is... exactly. And... I also work with memory of color, which I find interesting. How memory fragments are part of my emotion… and how color affects me. It's something I've been fascinated by, and color has a weight, a very strong emotional resonance. When I'm in a different spectrum of color, I'm interested in how memory is a part of it as well.
GD: Okay. I'm going to share (my screen). I am on your website, and yes, there are at least one of these two or three greens... this is a stunning painting. Wow.
ASL: Okay, It's interesting because I because you know, if we look at my personal history, I was born in the States. I grew up in the States, and I moved to Norway when I was fourteen. So, I also had a near death experience when I was five, where I was attacked by a dog inside in a room, and I had a severe face trauma. It was stitched... and I had to be careful with going outside. I had to stay inside for a long time period of time due to the sun... (Ever since,) I've been connected to nature, and I have felt this sort of freedom...
When I moved to Norway, every summer I visited the south coast of Norway, which is where my grandparents had a summer house. And my father and his siblings all have it now... so I visited my grandparents there every summer... by the sea. And especially after that accident, being outdoors, when I was at the sea, playing alone in nature along this stony coastal area... and also being the woods in the in the green forests, it gave me a sort of a freedom, an opening.
… I think it was my own way of… becoming who I am today. And also, the sense of… moving from the U.S. to Norway. I felt a sort of cultural displacement, and I managed this displacement by connecting to nature. It brought me into place again, it showed me home, and it has followed me all the way… and this resonance is in the painting.
So, that's sort of a notion of wandering, of ‘being one with nature,’ and understanding… that home is everywhere… just go outside… it resonates. I have experienced a lot of anxiety around that early trauma.
And of course it's… my emotions, and my nerves, in a sense, that are in the lines, in my palettes, and also in my sense of space… (generally) in the way I paint…(with) a lot of my emotion, that is in my paintings… In a… sense, it's (painting is) a way of being… and a way of finding myself.
GD: … about the green in particulars. I mean, I was scrolling through the series where your focus was green, and some of those greens we see. So, I see other bodies of work... And now, hearing your response to the color question, I'm translating that as not just nature, which it is, you know, very natural greens, alive greens. Am I correct in interpreting what you're saying that it's also about the place you find the freedom... as a painter? ...the freedom that you experience when you are a painting... that you find it in nature... this connection between the actual organic natural world and your painting (a sense of freedom)... is that right?
ASL: Yeah, it is going on, and a lot through those deep, rich, earthy greens. And it's sort of fair to say... it's an 'inner green.' It's not all about the outer, it's an inner green. It can also be turmoil... It's not all pleasant. It's not all nature... it's also anxiety (and)… these other emotions. I guess that's for you to think, to feel free enough to search, and to have (experience) that richness.
GD: There is such a richness to your painting, and it's specifically to the array of greens, and how you interpret them… Again, back to a more academic color question. Do you think of that your use of green or of color generally, as being a kind of inclusive? If I go back to your choice of words, how you see yourself in art history as a contemporary painter...is it partly through your use of color?
ASL: Yeah. You know, without color there can't be a form. So, color is a passage... it transcends space.
GD: Say that again, it's a about color and space, and the transcendence of space... It comes before that, or it comes as soon as light exists, like the Big Bang or something. We know the Big Bang happened because it's visible. And the only way it's visible is because of light, right? And the only way we know that light is, is because it refracts, and when it refracts, then there's color right? So, all that happens in the same instant apparently.
ASL: Yeah… I see it also as a passage. I'm interested in this. The liminal space and passage of color, of what or how we can, how it bring you from… how it can transport you from one place to another. And also, it's sort of a like an embodied presence.
It's color that you can see… as a pulse. It's constantly traveling, like light. And it's something you can also interact with. So, it's very interesting how we can understand in-between this, how we can perceive this through color…by being in color, in these (liminal) spaces.
GD: ... really engaging. And I have another question not related necessarily to color. But I want to be conscious of your time since we got started a little late. Do you have time for one more question?...
ASL: Yeah.
GD: Well, okay, so it is about the philosophy of art. Or maybe it's about aesthetics. Or maybe it's phenomenology... really any kind of philosophy. There are so many fields of philosophy, either again, (that you have) formally studied, as in academically… or maybe one that you've devised on your own like Andy Warhol famously devised and wrote 'the philosophy of Andy Warhol from a to be and back again.'
(Your own) personal philosophy. So, however, you want to interpret philosophy, which is essentially a worldview… of course it's complex to each of us, but I wonder if you could just spend a couple of minutes talking about philosophy in a similar way that you've approached art history, or the history of abstract painting, or color theory. And if we just look for a moment at this little fragment called philosophy, how do you describe what is your philosophy is?
ASL: Yeah, I think if I can describe a personal philosophy in that sense, I would say it's a lot about questioning continuously...(about) being curious, and questioning myself. I see, and what I perceive and continually question...why I think exactly. Andy Warhol was so interesting. How he didn't accept the norms of the of society in the sense that he wanted to break the rules.
He questions what we take for granted, or what we understand as the being correct. So why should the alphabet be a to z. Why can't it be the other way around? And why is it so? Why are we so fixed in our thoughts and our patterns, thought patterns, and our structures, society, and how we reflect, I think it's really important to actually learn from, for instance, thinkers that break this structural thinking, and how we can continually question ourselves.
And by 'we' I mean, what is philosophy of art? I think for me it's the reason why philosophy is so important isn't it? It changes the way we interact with the world. So that's the most important I think, and that's something we should continually engage in... how we interact with the world...and continually question it. And yeah, so that's maybe that the general answer to that question.
GD: You started with and ended with the word question, which I find so fascinating. And right away in the beginning you went to Jacques Derrida's writing, and you know, generally to linguistics, but more specifically deconstruction. Because it is all about ending with the question which again you started with and your worldview with. And I wonder, does. Ah, have you done? Ah readings or translations of Dairy da, And is there, uh, does he influence at all? His ideas are writings.
ASL: Yeah, I think Derrida is very important in this sense. And I think also I would say also with Wittgenstein, because they have similarities, because they both disrupt language and they make us understand that, or question ways of how we interact and understand language. And we also can maybe not necessarily um find one unified to language, but rather understand that there's many ways of reframing of we, of disrupting, of thinking, new ways of how we can understand language, and that that is so important. …It shows an openness to language, and that like, for instance, how I work outdoors in with the outdoor installations. They also resonate with the thoughts of Wittgenstein, and there a dive that sense of continually trying to too hot, not just disrupt, but also um reframe, or find new ways of understanding language. And that is something that fascinates me.
GD: Right, It goes with everything else you're saying... about how important it is for you to feel this sense of space and openness, and that is all... the whole sort of aim or underlying philosophy of someone like Derrida.
ASL: yeah thinkers and writers of philosophy... of various theories and of course, of artists. I think that's everything. Oh, do you see?
GD: This is the sort of tail end or second part of the philosophy question... Can you point to something in your painting (that indicates your linguistic/deconstructive, or your philosophical position?) ... maybe (this) relates more to your outdoor installation. Do you want to say anything else about that?...you brought up that 'openness' or what happens for you outside?
ASL: Yeah, I think this also... the... embodied presence, or how we can also look at new ways of understanding identity. And how our embodied presence can be understood is something that I am continually challenge by in my work. ...For instance, I've made a painting series titled, 'Claiming Space,' where I draw the outlines of my body onto the canvas and paint both around it, and sometimes inside it. I reflect on this absence/presence of what is visible and invisible. And I do this outdoors as well.
So, there's a connection between an intertwining relationship between the inner and outer, and of being. Beyond that, in a sense. It's all also this um notion of openness, and how we can uh further philosophy, and relate to um an embodied presence, and how we are in the world…how we can relate to being both in the world, with others, and in nature...
GD: We call it Site-Specific or sometimes Earth Art, but yours, because it involves painting, maybe it is both Installation and Earth art combined.
ASL: Yeah, Um. But then also that, I don't know that it's figurative work...
GD: There's a figural element in your abstraction which I can believe is related to the underlying philosophy because it's newer for you, and you're, maybe more focused on philosophy now, thinking about it than you have been previously…
ASL: That's true.
GD: I mean, it's true for me. But is that also true for you?
ASL: Yeah, I think that of course, taking a Ph.D. that leads one to become more critical, in a sense that it leads you to question even more even further, even deeper.
GD:...it's good note to end on. Thank you so much Anne Sophie. Thanks, it was very generous of you. Thank you.
ASL: Like always, so much appreciated. And how about if I'm going to end this session...
GD: Yeah, we'll sign off, then we can just sign right back on and have a brief conversation.
ASL: Yeah, okay, okay, I'll see you in a sec. Thanks again…
